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Which type of keyswitches would you prefer in your Deck?
Linear (current) 22%  22%  [ 9 ]
Tactile 78%  78%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 41
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:30 am 
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I really have no idea...the point of this thread is to show that there would be interest in a Deck product with tactile switches. Right now I can say we haven't made plans to produce one of these products right now so the switch hasn't been decided yet either - could be blue or brown (although it is a greater chance it would be brown).

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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Tactile keyswitces are best for text writing with the classic ten finger typing manner - in my opinion.
I suppose speed typing is only possible with tactile keyswitches.

Or sell a "do it yoursel" package, where the keyswitches are missing.
Everybody can order its own and mount into the PCB - brown, blue... :roll: I could mount it, but not everybody :roll: ...
This idea won't bring the ROI, that is needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:55 pm 
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I also vote for tactile. I have been using my 82 mostly for gaming and it has been fine for that. Tonight I actually tried typing an email on my gaming workstation... and well, between the key height (understand that is an 82 issue, not a tactile vs. linear issue), I've decided I am not crazy about the linear mechanism.

I use a couple of IBM keyboards as well as my Apple Mac Book Pro laptop almost exclusively for actual typing. I'd prefer tactile.

However with that said, I'm thinking about grabbing a Legend anyway. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:35 pm 
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I'm for tactile switches in Deck's only if the switches have comparable MTBA's as the current linear switches.

Current linear: 50 million ops
Proposed tactile: 20million ops
30 million ops short is a NO GO for me.

Tip -> TVS Gold - Keyboard - World class quality at your finger tips. According to their specs the mechanical switches in there are up to 50 Million cycles. I was so curious; I had to own one of these. When our very nice Indian contractor handed out the TVS Gold to me I felt like Christmas until I had the box in my hand. Jeez, this thing is light. After taking the keyboard out of the box, my first impression was – Hikes!!! What a cheap design. I couldn’t feel any sense of quality but kept smiling: Thanks for the gift. I gave it a shot, used it for a year and the conclusion is still the same. The key/switch design is so bad, I can’t judge the switches. But they are tactile, mechanical and supposed to be good for 50 Million cycles.

I currently own a couple Unicomps keyboards to satisfy my tactile needs.
I also found spanking new M's clickers and rubber domes in a warehouse few years ago. The new M's are sitting in their box now because I still beat the crap out of my old M which is rated 25 million ops. This thing won't die. Every couple years or so I remove all the key caps and cover to clean them in the dishwasher. The old M comes out squeaky clean and in perfect working condition. There is not much computer devices able to brag against current material after 25 years.

The M design is huge, loud and not backlit. Make a Tactile Legend in the range of the 50 million ops and I'll be welling to spit extra cash to get at least two; One for home and one for work.

To be honnest, even at 20Mill most of your customers will never come close to the range of the expected operating failure.


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:16 am 
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Not sure where you found the 20 million operation figure but I can assure you that the proposed tactile switches would still have a MTBF of 50 million operations just like the current linear switches (they are both of the same Cherry MX series).

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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:57 pm 
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DeckGuy Adam wrote:
Not sure where you found the 20 million operation figure but I can assure you that the proposed tactile switches would still have a MTBF of 50 million operations just like the current linear switches (they are both of the same Cherry MX series).


You are not going to like my answer:

DeckGuy Adam wrote:
The tactile keyswitch we will most likely use is the same style Cherry MX switch (something like a C1NW, specs here at the bottom). Currently we use an 11NW if you want to compare. Reliability, life, etc. should be the same. We will not be changing to a membrane style keyboard as the life on those products are far less than mechanical keyswitches.


Follow the link you proposed and let me know if it is just a typo on the Cherry site.

Here's what got my attention:

Features
(bla bla bla)
Long life: 50 million operations (linear) and 20 million operations minimum (tactile)

(Bla bla bla)

And the MX's look just like the one in the TVS Gold too. The TVS is also rated at 50mill. But I actually found few forums debating about deceptive advertising when keyboard makers are using the 50mill specs to describe their MX-Tactile based keyboard.

Go find out what Cherry has to say about this. Are the MX-Tactile 50 or 20's?


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:09 pm 
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Ahh my mistake, hooked on phonics didn't work for me obviously.

However, in the data sheet on the Cherry website you posted above, on page two it shows the different specs for MX and ML switches (big difference, ML's are more of a laptop-style switch and are not as rugged). The data sheet shows that the MX switches do have a lifespan of 50 million cycles (it does say linear next to the 50 million but from what we can tell this is the type of test they used to rate the switches and is not related to being linear/tactile). We also have some old paper data sheets here at Deck from about 20 years ago which clearly state that the soft tactile MX switches (C1NW's) have a lifespan of 50 million cycles.

Also from pictures on the internet it does also appear to me that the switches in the TVS Gold board are probably Cherry MX switches but there is no way to tell without popping off one of the keycaps and looking for the Cherry logo on the switch itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:31 pm 
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And to support your statement, I just got a reply from an offical source at Cherrycorp.com

"Hello,

I apologize but our website has not been updated yet. All MX series switches are rated at 50 million actuations.
"

Can you put me in the field testing group when you have some tactile Deck prototypes?
:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:39 pm 
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Thanks for posting the update. I don't think we will have a field testing group but if we do i will be sure to let you know. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:20 pm 
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I also registered just to vote for tactile. I would have already ordered at least one if they were available (probably 2 since I like to have identical keyboards at work and at home).

I would also buy a kit where I had to install (even provide my own) Cherry switches as long as the other parts were supplied. I don't really want to buy a normal one and desolder 300+ pins first.


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:45 pm 
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Along with other people in this thread, Me and my friends are holding out for tactile version 82-key. :mrgreen:

I love companies that setup forums for their products.


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Adding my two cents: Add tactile-clicky to your product line, and you have made many sales.

I do not buy the complaint that audible feedback is distracting in large offices. I am old enough to remember staff rooms with hundreds of loud IBM Selectrics, and the audible feedback produced faster typists. :!: If tuning out the noise of coworkers had a negative impact it was negligible and more than compensated for by the individual typist's gains from hearing their own keystrokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:46 am 
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Obviously tactile is considered by most to be superior for typing. But would it be possible to offer a choice? Linear is IMHO superior for gaming, and there are some (like me) who would prefer linear, even if tactile would be better from a data entry POV.

I mean I already have a linear Legend, and it's great and I don't see replacing it any time soon. But if I ever had to (freak soda spill or something) I'd like to know I could replace it with one like I have now.


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 6:10 pm 
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It looks like there's a compelling demand for tactile vs. linear. I voted for tactile as well. This may not be answerable yet, but: If deck should ever switch to something like cherry browns, would it be possible to send in our used deck to get the switches upgraded for less than the cost of buying a whole new keyboard? If so, I would definitely be interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Linear vs. Tactile keyswitch thread
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:20 am 
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shortround wrote:
It looks like there's a compelling demand for tactile vs. linear. I voted for tactile as well. This may not be answerable yet, but: If deck should ever switch to something like cherry browns, would it be possible to send in our used deck to get the switches upgraded for less than the cost of buying a whole new keyboard? If so, I would definitely be interested.

Unfortunately we will in all probability not be offering this service due to the time it takes to do such a mod. You can buy different switches from certain electronics resellers (Digikey is one), and as long as your soldering quality is good we will still warranty the product. Cherry brown switches are extremely hard to get so we would most likely go with white (MX1A-C1NW) or blue (MX1A-E1NW).

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