It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:44 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours





Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Which type of keyswitches would you prefer in your Deck?
Linear (current) 22%  22%  [ 9 ]
Tactile 78%  78%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 41
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:19 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I have a couple questions to help me come to a decision:

Will the tactile switches be in replace of or in addition to the linear switches? i.e. Will they be an option? What type of tactile switch will be used? Buckling Spring, membrane/rubber dome or some other design? How will this effect their reliability? Will the price change (up or down)?

With the amount of people that have mentioned noise I have a feeling that some are confusing the term tactile with noise level. I think that you need to define exactly what you mean by tactile and if possible break this poll into two questions. 1. Do you want tactile and 2. Do you require/desire a quiet keyboard or do you want it to be "clicky"? In the end if the results are driving a membrane tactile switch or buckling spring tactile switch (BTW I thought I saw that these are patented somewhere is this true?) create a second poll and state that if you switch (no pun intended) to tactile membrane switches what happens to the price, MTBF, etc. If it is just noise that bothers people maybe the suggestion of modifying the existing board is a better option. Maybe a removable silicone plug at the base of the switch to absorb the impact so that it won't block the LED, plus if it is removable those that like the click can have it. Just some rambling thoughts.


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:09 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 463
Location: Kenosha, WI
Tactile switches give the user more feedback in terms of how the key responds to being pressed. For example, press one of the keys on your keyboard very slowly and you will probably feel the response I mentioned. The keys that are currently used in Deck products (linear) do not have this feedback - the only time you will 'feel' something respond is when you bottom them out.

The noise level between the two types of switches is relatively the same.

This poll is intended to research the desire for tactile vs. linear keyswitches. We may or may not ever offer products with tactile switches.

The tactile keyswitch we will most likely use is the same style Cherry MX switch (something like a C1NW, specs here at the bottom). Currently we use an 11NW if you want to compare. Reliability, life, etc. should be the same. We will not be changing to a membrane style keyboard as the life on those products are far less than mechanical keyswitches.

_________________
Deck Guy Adam
http://www.deckkeyboards.com - The best backlit keyboards on Earth
http://www.tg3electronics.com - Parent company of Deck, leaders in custom industrial keyboards


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:35 am 
Offline
 ICQ  Profile

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:11 am
Posts: 4
Location: LA, Cali, US
thanks adam. i might install them soon if deck will not manufacture tactile keyboards.
all i need to convert to tactile switches should be just the letters, spacebar, and the num keys.

:twisted:


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:44 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:27 am
Posts: 2
(1) Any plans for Tactile Keyswitches for Deck Boards Yet? (It is my understanding that all of the deck boards have linear keyswitches.)



(2) What are the advantages / disadvantages of Linear versus Tactile switches? It appears from my research that Tactile have a shorter life than Linear Keyswitches. Why is that?



(3) Do the TG3 BL82 Series use Tactile or Linear Keyswitches? (I apologize if this is the incorrect place to ask)

Thanks


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:40 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I can't speak for Deck as to their plans for a tactile switch, but I can say that yes the current models do have linear mechanical key switches.

As for the advantages and disadvantages this kind of blends into the answer for the next part. If you look up tactile in the dictionary is means "perceptible by touch" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tactile). Basically this just means that there is a variation in the activation force in the key once the key stroke has been registered. Typically the key will either suddenly require less force like with a membrane switch or will have a click (as in a perceivable vibration not necessarily audible) of some sort or both. With that said I don't think that there is necessarily any advantages to disadvantages to either type. It's just matter of personal preference. It seems that there is some confusion between Tactile vs Linear and Mechanical vs Membrane. I think it is safe to say that all cheap keyboards, and most not so cheap keyboards (read that as ones with useless bells and whistles) are membrane switches which have a much shorter lifespan than mechanical switches. As far as I know all membrane switches are tactile which I think is why there is a lot of confusion out there. Maybe the Deck guys know of one that isn't since keyboards are their business. When someone says tactile most people think membrane switches (even if they don't know what the switch technology is) which is pretty quiet due to the silicone rubber used in the membrane and tactile in feel. Deck have said they will use Cherry brand tactile switches if they do change to tactile switches which is the brand they use now. These switches too are mechanical and by their account are no "quieter" than the linear switch. Frankly I don't think that the linear switches are that loud. The click isn't really supposed to be that audible. There are mechanical tactile switches that are obnoxiously loud. Any buckling spring keyboard (i.e. ancient IBM keyboards if you have ever seen one). I think that the consensus there is that some like the feel, but no one really likes how noisy they are.

As for TG3 keyboards, Deck is the only line they sell to consumers. Unless you are willing to buy about 1000 of them, you are out of luck. Maybe you can get 1000 of you closest fiends together and put in an order. :D

Hope that helps. Maybe Deck can fill in the blanks for you. (Or fix my mistakes/misconceptions/misunderstandings.)

Cheers!


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:18 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 463
Location: Kenosha, WI
JohnnyNobody wrote:
(1) Any plans for Tactile Keyswitches for Deck Boards Yet? (It is my understanding that all of the deck boards have linear keyswitches.)

(2) What are the advantages / disadvantages of Linear versus Tactile switches? It appears from my research that Tactile have a shorter life than Linear Keyswitches. Why is that?

(3) Do the TG3 BL82 Series use Tactile or Linear Keyswitches? (I apologize if this is the incorrect place to ask)

Thanks

1. No plans yet, just gathering feedback. You are correct in saying our products currently have linear switches.

2. Tactile switches will probably have a shorter lifespan than a linear switch. This is mostly due to the mechanism used to provide the feedback. In the case of the Cherry switches we use the difference is negligable.

3. The TG3 BL82 series keyboards use linear switches but they also incorporate a rubber splashguarding membrane which provides tactile feedback. This is not available on Deck products due to design differences and price issues.

Also in respone to goldsy's post here is a link that may be useful to help explain the difference in the keyswitch technologies:
http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html

_________________
Deck Guy Adam
http://www.deckkeyboards.com - The best backlit keyboards on Earth
http://www.tg3electronics.com - Parent company of Deck, leaders in custom industrial keyboards


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:41 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:27 am
Posts: 2
Goldsy & DeckGuy Adam

Thanks for the responses

Huge fan of Deck’s products and I am excited about your incorporation of mechanical keyswitches and LED’s

I believe I am / would be on the boat with the people that prefer tactile over linear. Back in the day I had an Apple II keyboard and absolutely loved that thing. I never could quite place why but now that I am in the market for quality keyboards and have done some research, I believe it was those mechanical tactile switches. (I think I sold that keyboard along with the computer for $20 at a garage sale – “wish I would of kept it”)

As for now I am going to play the waiting game with Deck and hope that Deck will manufacturer the next batch of Deck boards with tactile switches.

However, I may just break down and get an 82 – key Fire (those are some great looking boards)

Anyways, thank you much for the responses

P.S. How much interest / commitment is necessary in order for deck to produce a run with tactile swithces


Top
 

 Post subject: doubt it would lose money
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:31 am
Posts: 16
Just my 2 cents - I have a Deck Legend and a I have a Unicomp keyboard at work (buckling-spring), so you might say I use both linear and tactile keyboards on a regular basis. Of the two I personally prefer the linear switches on the Deck (that's the way I voted).

That is of course my own very subjective opinion. In addition the buckling-spring is probably not really comparable to tactile cherry switches. It has a very springy feel (go figure), and it's freaking loud (the Deck is a quiet keyboard next to buckling-springs).

I'm sure there are people who would feel opposite, but that's just the point, if you ask a dozen people this kind of question you'll probably get a dozen different answers.

I would have a different question though: Does Deck seriously believe it would lose money on a tactile keyboard? Reviewing the forum it seems this comes up so often and people are so strongly for tactile switches that there must be a market. I think the bigger question is not so much if a tactile keyboard would sell, but in what ratio would you maintain inventory of tactile to linear switches (in essence I think it's an inventory management question, not a will-this-sell question).


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:38 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I had a box way way back with a keyboard I loved. I'm not sure who made it but it was re-branded to Zenith Data Systems. Looking back I'm sure that it was a mechanical switch keyboard. I think it was tactile, but it was very light tactile. That's why I went with the Deck. It is very much like that old beast. Except it had an old AT connector. Anyone remember those things? The connector had to be the size of a nickel. I bought an AT to PS/2 converter so that I could use it on "new" machines. Even better was the coiled cord. I think it got lost in one of my many college moves. But, now I have a Deck so all is not bad. I probably would have relegated it to the server closet by now anyway. Basic beige doesn't fit with the new PC motif.

I think that I would probably be OK with tactile switches as long as they were mechanical switches and that the tactile feedback didn't increase the activation force of the switch.


Last edited by goldsy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:38 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:33 pm
Posts: 1
I prefer tactile switches.


Top
 

 Post subject: Own the marketplace!
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:18 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 8:07 pm
Posts: 1
The only reason I'm at this site is because I've been searching for about an hour to see if anyone had a backlit version of a "model M" in production or in planning.

I've read more than a few posts stating that I am not alone in wanting modern tech with an "old-school" feel. And I think the fanbase for the Model M/buckling spring tech stands for itself.

Deck introducing a backlit buckling spring key would make it the only vendor producing such a beast, and likely the only one for years and years. Unicomp only begrudgingly introduced a USB version. They are milking their cash cow until it dies, and aren't going to add any new features in the next decade, if they stay around that long.

So go ahead and make a buckling spring backlit keyboard. I would have bought a Buckling Spring Legend half an hour ago and be peeking in the mailbox already... if it was offered.

And again, it would be pretty much a guarantee that you would own the market for however long you choose to make them.

Plus, if UniComp gives up the ghost, guess which company suddenly inherits millions of keyboards and users looking for parts and mods????? :wink:


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:18 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:01 am
Posts: 1
I too wish to cast my vote for the tactile keys. I like many other FPS gamers prefer the tactile keys. I also use my main gaming system in the same room where my family watches TV and am constantly barraged with complaints about the noise of my typing. Hopefully the tactile keys would be less noisy.


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:42 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
smartacew0lf wrote:
... Hopefully the tactile keys would be less noisy.


I can assure you that this is *not* the case. Previous posts from Deck have indicated that they will use a Cherry tactile switch comparable to the Cherry linear switch they currently use. The noise level will also be comparable.


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:47 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 463
Location: Kenosha, WI
goldsy wrote:
smartacew0lf wrote:
... Hopefully the tactile keys would be less noisy.


I can assure you that this is *not* the case. Previous posts from Deck have indicated that they will use a Cherry tactile switch comparable to the Cherry linear switch they currently use. The noise level will also be comparable.


This is correct, if a tactile version is offered it will be a Cherry tactile switch with similar noise properties.

_________________
Deck Guy Adam
http://www.deckkeyboards.com - The best backlit keyboards on Earth
http://www.tg3electronics.com - Parent company of Deck, leaders in custom industrial keyboards


Top
 

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:19 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:58 am
Posts: 7
Location: Midwest
Hey Adam, is there any chance of a new Deck board with Cherry blue switches? I've enjoyed my Deck Gold Legend, but I've been thinking a lot about a new keyboard that's more tactile. My best choices now appear to be a buckling-spring board from Unicomp or a "Das Keyboard II," which has Cherry blue switches. What do you think? I think I might want something clickier than the brown Cherry switches.


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits