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 Post subject: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:23 pm 
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I'm dying to get 82-key in tactile. Number pads are an ergonomic disaster for those of us with big honking mouse pads.

So like...that includes everyone. :)

Can we expect them soon? Are they on a ship in some mysterious container with a lot of other unmarked goods?


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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:48 am 
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Sorry no plans right now for a tactile 82 key. I would love to have that in our lineup as well but there are reasons (mainly the poor economy) as to why we are not offering it at this time. Possibly in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Will tactile switches make it into all of the Legend boards, or just the Ice for now?

What switches are being used in the tactile boards?

-Z


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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:15 am 
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Do you guys read the geekhack forum? It seems so many prefer no keypad, and most dislike the cherry linear switch for whatever reason compared to the Browns and Blues. In any case, they have firm ideas for what makes a good keyboard, and with the law of averages, I'm surprised the 105 key model got switch treatment first. (jealous) The poll did refer to the 82-key version!

There also appears to be competition popping up with places like Newegg starting to carry boards with mechanical switches. I like what you all have done so far, but I think it is time to revise the outdated polls in the suggestions subforum and see what other kinds of uniqueness could be brought to market. I couldn't figure out how to send a PM, but I would like to link you to others putting out directly competing products. (ie...87 key Filco w/cherry blue for $115). Know thy enemy! Or is it thine? I don't know how to be old.

It also seems that the average person in America (the one you'd hope to receive money from on a consistent basis), is completely unaware of mechanical switch keyboards. Thus, your market is us, and the people on forums like geekhack. Over at Anandtech or [H]ardforum, most people will still recommend 'crap' like the Logitech G15 over a decent mechanical switch board.

Perhaps there is a way to capitalize on the forum market? Where do you advertise? Perhaps you could make a poll to see where the current forum users came from? I'm here because of a recommendation from the peripherals subforum of Anandtech. I'm an M.E. in progress, so getting the creative juices flowing and discussing ideas is what I currently live for.


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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:38 am 
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Lengradde wrote:
Do you guys read the geekhack forum? It seems so many prefer no keypad, and most dislike the cherry linear switch for whatever reason compared to the Browns and Blues.


My humble opinion on this: Guys on geekhack are freaks like you and me. I'm not convinced we are THE market. I even think we are a very small subset of the keyboard population.

And oh btw... The mouse is on the left side of my keyboard so the integrated numeric pad is not on the way but I see what you mean :D

Here's a question for Deck: What is your sales ratio 82-key vs 105-key?


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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:29 pm 
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I have readded the ability to send PMs, you can do so by clicking the little envelope icon under a member's name. Not sure how it got turned off but works now.

Currently we sell an overwhelming ratio of the Legend (105s) versus the 82 key Deck boards. I would guess the ratio to be around 10:1 at this point. In time we may release a tactile 82 key version but due to higher sales of the legend and the weakened economy we are only making the Legend available with tactile, and only in blue and (soon to come) white.

Currently we will be using the Cherry MX1A-C1NW switches (white plunger, soft tactile, 2.1 oz force). We may switch to a MX1A-G1NW (brown, 1.8 oz force) in the future because I have heard the C1NWs are going away. Depending on sales of the current tactile lineup and demand for a blue "clicky" switch version we may release that option in the future as well.

I understand that we could release products that could compete with products like the Filco, Das, HHK, etc. however we offer something that nobody else does: top quality LED backlit keyboards with mechanical switches and custom keycaps. We feel we do this better than any other products on the market, and instead of widening our product line to non-backlit items at this time we prefer to concentrate on what brought us to the top.

Will check on the polls in the suggestions side :) Been very busy here at Deck!

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:42 pm 
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white!!! I want one! :)

Any word on a canadian retailler ?


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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:50 pm 
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psy wrote:
white!!! I want one! :)

Any word on a canadian retailler ?


In time I am sure our resellers will have stock. These are totally brand new so takes a short while for this to happen. We are considering shipping to Canada directly in the future however, no idea on the timetable for that though. I would shoot an email to Performance-PCs - if they see customer interest they may try to get them faster.

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Can someone please give a detailed breakdown of what the key differences are? Linear vs Tactile and the different colors.. Seems everyone wants the blues, the browns are ok but not as good? The whites sound like a mechanical key switch that performs closest to a membrane keyboard?

I have owed a lot of different keyboards over the years and so far I have liked the Saitek Eclipse. The back lighting and the simplicity of it with volume up/down, mute and a brightness key. The housing of the Saitek is fairly trim as well. Granted the quality is not as nice and it does not last as long, but when new it feels decent and it looks good.

The whites seem like it would be a big quality upgrade and would not be loud and annoying to click on. But the masses seem to think the blues are the best choice?

I play all types of games but I seem to play FPS games more so then the rest. I have been in competition FPS like Rainbow Six to Count Strike Source. My favorite mouse bar none is the new Razer Death Adder. I do not like their keyboards because they are to big and have to many extra keys that I will not utilize. The laptop type keys are also not for me. Looks nice but that's about it.


Any input is welcome

Thanks in advance

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:13 am 
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I am working on a page for the main site dedicated to explaining the difference in switches but it is slightly more difficult than I first anticipated...so for now here is a quick breakdown:

There are many types of switch technologies out there but for the sake of this conversation we will only focus on the linear vs. tactile feedback portion (mechanical vs. membrane vs. other technologies gets a bit more involved but I will touch on that a bit too).

Currently our products use Cherry mechanical keyswitches in 2 versions: soft tactile and linear.

The linear switches have an almost consistent force through the entire stroke of the key. This means that when you first start pressing down on the key all the way until you completely bottom the key out as far as it can go, the force you feel at your finger remains the same. Not much feedback besides when you feel the "thud" at the bottom.

The tactile switches have a slightly elevated force around the midpoint of the stroke of the key. So, when you have pressed the key down about halfway, the force increases slightly for a brief moment, and then goes back to normal. This gives your fingers an indication that the key has been pressed so you can stop pressing the key and let up to move on to another key faster.

Keyboards like your Saitek use membrane technology, which to put it simply, uses a thin membrane layer (something like those plastic overhead projector transparency sheets with circuits inside) with rubber dome-shaped objects that are pressed down by the plastic key plunger. The rubber domes give you the feedback in this case.

So whats the big deal you say? Well for one, mechanical keyswitches are rated to have a much longer life due to the more rugged technology they employ (ex. switches in the Deck boards are rated for 50 million cycles, membrane boards are typically 20 million max or much less). Secondly, if you have a bad switch in a mechanical board it can generally be repaired; membrane boards go in the trash and you need to buy a new one.

Did I forget to mention that our boards have a bunch of sweet LEDs in them too? :)

UPDATE: I have now created a page on our main site dedicated to explaining the difference between linear and tactile. It can be found here: http://www.deckkeyboards.com/keyswitches.php . I am completely open to anyone who wants to add to it or improve upon it.

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 pm 
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Sounds good and thank you for the info.

So going from my Saitek keyboard besides the quality difference, how different will the fell be>? More smooth? Easier or harder to push? Will it be noisy?

From what I read white sounds good because it is tactile but not as clicky. I seem to be reading that most people want to have the blue key switches. Do they feel even better or is it they click louder?

Since I play games that require responsiveness and speed I do not think I would enjoy hearing *click* *click click click* a lot and be annoyed.

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:16 pm 
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Personally I think the feel of the Deck with the soft tactile switches is better than a Saitek and about the same or easier to press the keys. It may be a bit noisier than your Saitek but that depends on how you use your keyboards. I tend to hit mine pretty hard and the sound is comparable.

The white switches in our tactile boards are much less noisy than the blue "clicky" switches. Many people like the blue switches because they resemble what came in older model keyboards. They do make the *click click click* sounds you describe so they are not for everybody which is why we chose not to use the blue switches for our current lineup.

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:53 pm 
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Ok I took the plunge, So I ordered the ICE Legend Tactile.. I will let you know what I think of it compared to my Saitek Eclipse.. Should have it July 2nd :D

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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Congrats! Good luck finding a place to dispose of your Saitek :D

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http://www.tg3electronics.com - Parent company of Deck, leaders in custom industrial keyboards


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 Post subject: Re: 82-key tactile, because hacksaw+105 key = fail
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Any updates on this? I am definitely interested in a 82-key tactile board. Size is the most important criteria for me (even the filco tenkeyless is a little too big for my taste) so I am currently using a Cherry 4100 with the black linear switches and it's OK but I would love to get back to a true tactile board.


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